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 LATEST TOPICS |  FORUMS » TECH NEWS » REMEMBER THAT ARE BROTHER/SISTERS AT WIK...
Subject: RE: Remember that are brother/sisters at Wiki are shutting down...
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TKSS Jan 18, 2012 03:51 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Lord Emperor @ Jan 18 2012, 03:44 PM)

You keep using that word "theft", I do not think you understand what it meams.

For one party to steal, another part must experience tangible loss. That means that the victim has less than they started with. Downloading a movie, game or music track does not cause the artist tangible loss.


"Since the whole thread originated due to Wiki, let's use them shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft

"In common usage, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent. The word is also used as an informal shorthand term for some crimes against property, such as burglary, embezzlement, larceny, looting, robbery, shoplifting and fraud."

You can argue semantics until you're blue in the face, it doesn't change the facts. Just like the inane inforgraphic changes nothing. It's nothing more than flawed morals and spin doctor tactics."

Try again.

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Dante_ Xaiver™ Jan 18, 2012 03:52 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Would also like to point out Hollywood nevr has to prove anything when they take someone to court no proof of distrobution just an accusation someone committed copyright infringement . They also see themselves entitled to bankrupt and individual when no considerable harm was caused to their way of life.

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Eagle1337 Jan 18, 2012 03:52 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (TKSS y Jan 18 2012, 03:51 PM)

"Since the whole thread originated due to Wiki, let's use them shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft

"In common usage, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent. The word is also used as an informal shorthand term for some crimes against property, such as burglary, embezzlement, larceny, looting, robbery, shoplifting and fraud."

You can argue semantics until you're blue in the face, it doesn't change the facts. Just like the inane inforgraphic changes nothing. It's nothing more than flawed morals and spin doctor tactics."

Well then why aren't those who get caught pirating getting tried for theft? This isn't semantics you just don't get the difference..
I guess I'm a thief because I've borrowed stuff form a friend before too.

This message was modified by the poster at 01 18, 2012 03:53 PM

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TKSS Jan 18, 2012 03:55 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Eagle1337 @ Jan 18 2012, 03:49 PM)

edit: TKSS the image doesn't even promote piracy. It's more of a get rid of all the stupid garbage because it only hinders, and vote with your wallet.


Not when you know the contextual use our resident conspiracy theorist uses it in. Not when you know his history on the subject and the fact he hosts servers, to house and distribute, in other countries to circumvent the laws here. As I said, the way this board is setup, and the mod abilities that go with it, is very open to perception.

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Dante_ Xaiver™ Jan 18, 2012 03:56 PM Reply | Bookmark
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What If I take a dvd over to a friends lace does that make me in violation of copy right infringement for sharing with him? by copyright infringement standards that does make me guilty.

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Eagle1337 Jan 18, 2012 03:57 PM Reply | Bookmark
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This image was deleted by TKSS @01/18/2012

Remember guys vote with your wallet.

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Tips: 200 Points tipped from 2 members
Lord Emperor Jan 18, 2012 03:57 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (TKSS @ Jan 18 2012, 03:51 PM)

TKSS said:

"Since the whole thread originated due to Wiki, let's use them shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft

"In common usage, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent. The word is also used as an informal shorthand term for some crimes against property, such as burglary, embezzlement, larceny, looting, robbery, shoplifting and fraud."

You can argue semantics until you're blue in the face, it doesn't change the facts. Just like the inane inforgraphic changes nothing. It's nothing more than flawed morals and spin doctor tactics."

Try again.


No, you try again. I highlighted the important words for you.

File sharers copy (not take) bits of information (not property) which are being consensually shared.

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Master__Shake Jan 18, 2012 03:58 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Hey Xaios!!!

being a musician you may like this one

http://www.whioam.com/music-industry-plans-action-against-guitar-websites.html

i wont quote it but this is how it goes, they own their music and if you value whats good for you you won't play along...

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Analbumcover Jan 18, 2012 04:03 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Those 10 minutes of FBI warnings before the feature presentation, each and every trailer, deleted scenes, and the special commentary ARE SUPPOSED TO PREVENT PIRACY!
You must not take piracy offences very seriously.
We're just going to have to show more awareness commercials during the TV shows you like and attach an anti-piracy brochure to all forms of intellectual property.

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Q-Ball 7 Jan 18, 2012 04:03 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Analbumcover u Jan 18 2012, 02:30 PM)

I'm not stealing physical property, only the effort that person put into making intellectual property.


I'm borrowing that quote, if you don't mind.

Anyways. If we're discussing piracy my only answer is "if I buy it I own a copy and do with as I please, including making as many copies as I want and backup rights"; as long as I'm not taking away the value of production by redistributing more copies than I own.

Yes, I know that the price to produce one copy gets smaller and smaller as more and more copies sell; but I don't care, I will buy a copy.

If you're going to call that "entitlement" fine, but remember that possession is nine-tenths of the law so yes, I AM entitled to that because that's how everything else works.

Though piracy does provide a better service than buying retail (as explained by the accurate image that Dante posted; TKSS, you're out of line here), that's not something that I'm particularly inclined to do if I can purchase a copy.

Once I have it in my possession I am now entitled to create  and obtain unlimited copies from whatever source I choose.

So I'll buy it, but then I'll "steal" a copy that removes things that I don't want to see (like warnings about piracy and unskippable trailers) and be within my rights to do so because I've already own a copy.

If I want to watch it on a different medium, I'm fully within my rights to do so because I already own the right to that copy; all laws that say otherwise I believe to be unjust and against the common good (like C-11, though the Tories don't have the common good in mind).

If, however, I can't give money for a work past its production, I will feel free to use it until such time as I can purchase a copy; then I will, for no loss can take place until such time as it becomes available for purchase (there are reasonable limits to this, such as not downloading an old version of a program when a new version is available for purchase).

TL;DR
I agree with TKSS's message that 'typical' file-sharing can destroy value.

However, there are limits to what producing companies should and should not be allowed to do; for example, downloading a modified copy of 'The Matrix' that gets straight to the point should be well within my rights as long as I already own those rights.



By the way: the way you delete  images is once you've received a certain rating on these forums you can hit the button and remove the image.

Of course, some people are apt to abuse this power when they don't like the image.

Which is why US sites today are blacked out- if someone doesn't like what a site has to say they can block them on an accusation of copyright infringement REGARDLESS of if it was actually happening.

So you've just proven why the bills in Congress are bad. Great job, TKSS!

This message was modified by the poster at 01 18, 2012 04:12 PM

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TKSS Jan 18, 2012 04:06 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Dante_ Xaiver™ @ Jan 18 2012, 03:52 PM)

Would also like to point out Hollywood nevr has to prove anything when they take someone to court no proof of distrobution just an accusation someone committed copyright infringement . They also see themselves entitled to bankrupt and individual when no considerable harm was caused to their way of life.


Really, they have to show no proof? They just walk into a court room, tell the judge they think you're guilty and the judge just rolls over to have his/her belly tickled before he/she gives his/her judgement? You can't really have a successful judgement unless you can prove intent. And if you don't want to get bankrupted, don't do anything that will get you hauled into civil court. How is this so hard to comprehend? If you don't want bad things to happen in your life, you don't do things that will jeopardize it, be it financial or personal freedoms.

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Eagle1337 Jan 18, 2012 04:07 PM Reply | Bookmark
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lolol more tkss being immature and not getting the image..

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TKSS Jan 18, 2012 04:10 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Intellectual property is just that, property. Arguing semantics doesn't change that.

Quote: (Lord Emperor @ Jan 18 2012, 03:57 PM)

File sharers copy (not take) bits of information (not property) which are being consensually shared.


Which you have not been granted a license to do. So it's illegal distribution, not sharing.

Try again.

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Dante_ Xaiver™ Jan 18, 2012 04:10 PM Reply | Bookmark
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In reality Filesharing is no different then back in the days when People used to record stuff to audio Cassettes or VHS. Hollywood was crying about those technologies just like they are with file sharing. did the VCR or Audio Cassettes ruin Hollywood? no it made it flourish. File sharing opens up new revenue sources for Hollywood because people will discover content they might not never have found in the first place.

The file sharer in some cases will go out and spend money on similar content to support the people behind what they have found and liked. Sure this always isnt the case but it does lead to some revenue that otherwise wouldn't be there. One download does not mean one lost sale. One download means there is a chance for potential income that was never there in the first place.

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TKSS Jan 18, 2012 04:13 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Eagle1337 @ Jan 18 2012, 04:07 PM)

lolol more tkss being immature and not getting the image.


You mean the spindoctoring? I understand it quite well.

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Dante_ Xaiver™ Jan 18, 2012 04:14 PM Reply | Bookmark
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This image was deleted by TKSS @01/18/2012

A picture for our friend TKSS

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Dead Things Jan 18, 2012 04:15 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Eagle1337 @ Jan 18 2012, 03:57 PM)

This image was deleted by TKSS p01/18/2012

Evidently, TKSS is an active proponent of censorship. No wonder he's rooting for SOPA and PIPA!

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Eagle1337 Jan 18, 2012 04:15 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (TKSS c Jan 18 2012, 04:13 PM)

You mean the spindoctoring? I understand it quite well.

so the consumer doesn't have to go through more hoops, or have to watch silly trailers and the fbi notices; and can just jump right into the movie? And that we shouldn't vote with our wallets to get rid of it?

This message was modified by the poster at 01 18, 2012 04:22 PM

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{--M--} Jan 18, 2012 04:17 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Westcoast @ Jan 17 2012, 09:10 PM)

put heuristics on uploads to check for infringements and throw the book at them


That's what YouTube is doing with some content and look what it has caused.

The concept of "fair use" for the affected content has been totally thrown out the window.

Hell, if somewhere in the video there's a radio playing in the background, and the song is one that is flagged by YouTube, even if you can only hear 30 seconds of the song, they mute or completely remove the video.

The problem with such heuristics is that they can't easily differentiate between copyright infringement and fair use. You need a human to do that.

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Q-Ball 7 Jan 18, 2012 04:21 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I don't know if he's noticed this, but...

TKSS, you're damaging your point by invoking SOPA-like powers.
You don't understand the image objectively and you don't like the point it makes so you're invoking the power that SOPA would give and you are abusing it.

Every time the image pops up, our forum SOPA-man here removes it because it offends him.

But he can't remove the text that condemns him.

Can a mod lock this topic?

This message was modified by the poster at 01 18, 2012 04:22 PM

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Dead Things Jan 18, 2012 04:21 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: ({--M--} @ Jan 18 2012, 04:17 PM)

You need a human to do that.

Don't forget you also need a common sense component. And that's why it can't be done.

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Master__Shake Jan 18, 2012 04:22 PM Reply | Bookmark
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you guys....

you do know that this bill is/was thrown out right?

the problem with american politics is this, any bill people don't like is removed from being voted on... problem is couple months down the road it gets hidden in another bill and passed without question.

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Eagle1337 Jan 18, 2012 04:22 PM Reply | Bookmark
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No more SOPA?

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TKSS Jan 18, 2012 04:25 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Dante_ Xaiver™ @ Jan 18 2012, 04:10 PM)

In reality Filesharing is no different then back in the days when People used to record stuff to audio Cassettes or VHS.


Indeed, people used to get charged for it back then as well.

Quote: (Dante_ Xaiver™ @ Jan 18 2012, 04:10 PM)

Hollywood was crying about those technologies just like they are with file sharing. did the VCR or Audio Cassettes ruin Hollywood?


Which is why tariffs were put on cassettes, CD's, DVD's and Blu-Ray's.

Quote: (Dante_ Xaiver™ @ Jan 18 2012, 04:10 PM)

File sharing opens up new revenue sources for Hollywood because people will discover content they might not never have found in the first place.


Proof from a neutral source, please.

Quote: (Dante_ Xaiver™ @ Jan 18 2012, 04:10 PM)

The file sharer in some cases will go out and spend money on similar content to support the people behind what they have found and liked. Sure this always isnt the case but it does lead to some revenue that otherwise wouldn't be there.


Yet more flawed logic. As long as they pay for some of it it justifies not paying for the rest.

Quote: (Dante_ Xaiver™ @ Jan 18 2012, 04:10 PM)

One download does not mean one lost sale. One download means there is a chance for potential income that was never there in the first place.


And it's up to the business whether they want to allow "file sharers" to play the craps roll with their product(s), not the "file sharers". There isn't a single line in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that states you are entitled to do anything you advocate. Those are your rights within the borders of Canada. Anything beyond that is self-entitlment.

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TKSS Jan 18, 2012 04:26 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Dead Things @ Jan 18 2012, 04:15 PM)

No wonder he's rooting for SOPA and PIPA!


Never said I was pro SOPA or PIPA.

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Dead Things Jan 18, 2012 04:28 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (TKSS @ Jan 18 2012, 04:25 PM)

redacted

That's what you meant to say, isn't it?

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TKSS Jan 18, 2012 04:28 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Eagle1337 @ Jan 18 2012, 04:15 PM)

or have to watch silly trailers and the fbi notices


I forgot how incredibly hard it is to hit the FF button on the remote. You guys have it so incredibly hard!

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Eagle1337 Jan 18, 2012 04:30 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (TKSS @ Jan 18 2012, 04:28 PM)

I forgot how incredibly hard it is to hit the FF button on the remote. You guys have it so incredibly hard!

Not all of them allow for that either.. Also why should I the consumer have to go through more loops and hoops to watch the movie i bought?

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TKSS Jan 18, 2012 04:35 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Eagle1337 @ Jan 18 2012, 04:30 PM)

Also why should I the consumer have to go through more loops and hoops to watch the movie i bought?


You bought a piece of media. No different than software that requires you to scroll through the entire EULA, hoping you're actually reading it, so you can launch it. Do you complain when you go to a theater and have to watch the previews and ads?

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Q-Ball 7 Jan 18, 2012 04:38 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (TKSS @ Jan 18 2012, 04:25 PM)

Indeed, people used to get charged for it back then as well.


Citation needed.

The very low cost of programming (though don't has already been paid for by the studio and, by extension, you- remember that even if the stream you get is free you still have commercials (and in some cases tax dollars) that paid for it.

The reason that there is a tariff on recordable media is as you described, however I will debate that it was wrong to enact such a tariff for that reason alone because of the low cost of creating an copy of that information.

Quote: (TKSS @ Jan 18 2012, 04:25 PM)

There isn't a single line in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that states you are entitled to do anything you advocate.


That's funny, since the right to free speech was in there and you certainly aren't respecting it.

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