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 LATEST TOPICS |  FORUMS » GENERAL DISCUSSIONS » LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GTX 1080 TI...
Subject: let's talk about the GTX 1080 Ti
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Mr. Friendly™ Mar 09, 2017 11:15 AM Reply | Bookmark
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the HWC is interesting. very good 1440p performance, but, unsurprisingly, does struggle with 4K.

however, as said, due to the crispness of such high resolution, especially with G-Sync/Freesync used, you may not need to or really benefit from having all the settings turn to ultra as the effects would likely be unnoticeable.

and overclocking...10% gains on stock Founders Edition blower cooling. YOWZA!!!


...puhlease Vega...knock our socks off...

Topic URL: http://forums.ncix.com/forums/topic.php?id=2753688

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jakeElwood Mar 09, 2017 01:49 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I would argue that really high resolution crap is still crap.

Look at a movie on TV. Or watching a Formula One race. A Formula One race is only 720p, but looks better than any racing game we have. 4k does nothing to make the game look more realistic, just sharper.

4k doesnt make textures or lighting better, just sharper.

You still need AA at 4k, so, you are slaughtering your fps for nothing.

I would choose the lower resolution but more 'realistic looking' option every time. I have a 1440p rez because of photography which 4k would benefit. Not gaming though.


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Mr. Friendly™ Mar 09, 2017 02:26 PM Reply | Bookmark
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hey Elwood,

what about that resolution down-converting gimmick I've read about?

4K down to 1440p or 1600p...good/bad idea?

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jakeElwood Mar 09, 2017 04:58 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Hey Friendly,

CRT = yes
LCD = No

Anything other than native res on fixed pixel like LCD always looks bad.

Only way for it to have a chance of looking good is if 1 pixel becomes 4 pixels. Know what i mean? Its still a perfect square pixel, no over lapping or else blur. Which means it is technically possible for 1920x1080 to look perfect, but still never does. Scalers never do anything perfectly for whatever reasons.


Edit: Do you mean downscaling video and then playing it? That is different.


http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/viewsonic_vp2780-4k/interpolation.jpg

Same monitor. Top is 4k native, Bottom is 2560x1440

If you dont mind an extra-ordinarily blurry image you can change resolution all you want.




This message was modified by the poster at 03 09, 2017 05:21 PM

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shawn_m7 Mar 09, 2017 05:13 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Lets talk...

I have been doing 4k since 980. I run a 4k Hdr 80 inch curved samsung... yes aa matters at this size. I sit 6 feet away.

I run sli

Blower style cards in in sli.

My 1080s were significantly quiter than my 980s
Watched a bunch of reviews today. Some day blower makes your ears bleed. Others say its silent...

Personal experience. My 1080s run 2.1 all day long never over 80 degrees at a moderate fan curve. ALL aftermarket cards with their duel pcie power and list of high end components do next to nothing.

You want a card that LOOKS cool go ahead buy aftermarket.

Ill be getting the same performance as i always have blowing heat out of my case.

Buying a pair of 1080ti ear bleeding founders editions tomorrow.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 09, 2017 05:16 PM

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adz124 Mar 09, 2017 05:34 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I'm extremely interested in the 1080ti but....... I know it'll be nigh impossible to obtain a FE/AIB within the first month of release. Pre-orders will likely be shipped in batches. Plus, it's highly probable NCIX won't be doing pre-orders this time around.

The temperatures on the FE editions are somewhat respectable so if people are impatient, it's a viable option. And since the 1080ti is beating the titan xp by 2-3 fps (on average) on most titles; I expect we'll see a ton of shortages.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 09, 2017 05:37 PM

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Mr. Friendly™ Mar 09, 2017 05:40 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I had a hard enough time 13 years ago to buy a Radeon 8xx for $350. I cannot imagine spending a grand on a video card.

but two of them?

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shawn_m7 Mar 09, 2017 05:44 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Ordered my 1080s day of launch for less than they are selling today or anyday weeks after i got them.

I recieved mine 4 days after launch.

Paitience has NOTHING to do with it. I'd wait for founders over aftermarket.

Ive run 5 generations of sli with big bad fancy aftermarket cards and will never do it again. Ive been running blowers since 980.

You want a cool looking card buy one. The marketing doesnt pull me in anymore.

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i333/boobooboo3/20170218_131301_zpsiw9fjpz1.jpg

This message was modified by the poster at 03 09, 2017 06:09 PM

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nToxik Mar 09, 2017 06:22 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I don't know why people like the Founders or stock versions of GPUs so much. The custom AIB versions are always better even if they blow heat into your case. Most cases have good airflow so it isn't an issue.

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shawn_m7 Mar 09, 2017 06:42 PM Reply | Bookmark
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i like both of my cards runnign at the same temperature. Every AIB card I had was swinging 12-20 degrees between cards.

I have had both my 1080's fully apart to do a lighting mod and was very impressed that every piece was aluminum. Thats just good engineering, a full aluminum body helps with heat. Sure I can see 80 degrees max in synthetics but in games I never see over 70 degrees with a quite experience. OC z 2075 mhz

AIB are always "better" look at a STRIX with its pile of features, it's massive heat sink... and the next to no fps gain.

AIB want one thing. to make you feel that the price you are paying is justified. If it looks like alien technology you are more likely to buy it.

I don't know why people think AIB is a massive , superior option...

If you or I woke up tomorrow and started to live life how would either of us know which card the other had?

10 years of using sli and I DO know why some people like blowers more.


This message was modified by the poster at 03 11, 2017 09:09 AM

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Coach_ Mar 09, 2017 07:20 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I used to run SLI, I too always wanted reference cards. All of the reasons I hear ^^^ him refer to I agree with.

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rjb64 Mar 09, 2017 09:32 PM Reply | Bookmark
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You should consider coming on over to the "Dark Side" and throwing some Waterblocks on those suckers....once you game in silence and see your Cards hit a high temp under load of 34c you'll never go back ;)

I've run SLi and Tri SLi since the GTX 280's....gave up on Air Cooling when I got to the 780Ti's......EK states the Titan XP FC Blocks are compatible with the FE Ti's......some bloody fun WC'ing goodness....Although I'm still only running 1440p. so SLi 1080 looks as though its still the sweet spot for this Res.....1080Ti SLi would be a big waste of $$$ unless I get a new 4K monitor........$$$

This message was modified by the poster at 03 09, 2017 09:38 PM

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adz124 Mar 09, 2017 09:44 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Yeah because slapping a water block on it is totally gonna make it silent....

The pump makes noise and the rad obviously requires fans... So much for spending upwards of $700 for a custom loop for slightly lower temps...

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jakeElwood Mar 10, 2017 01:47 AM Reply | Bookmark
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If we are spending money on a hobby type thing, comparable to tricking out a car. Then, doesnt really matter, go all out.

For people that think of their PC more like a nice A to B car, you want the best price/performance rig.

I want a 100hz strobing monitor. Until someone makes a proper Strobing monitor, I will stick with the decent 27" 2560x1440 IPS with low lag and match the g-card to it. Which would be a 980ti or 1070.

What we really need is a 4000:1CR, 4ms pixel, 4ms input lag, 85-120hz proper strobing Monitor. Otherwise all this sli 1080ti is wasted because of the fairly crappy monitors we have now.

The monitor i mentioned can be made, easily. Its just that they know we will buy crap 4k TN monitors. And before you say how great your monitor is: You havnt seen and gamed on a Mitsubishi 2070sb CRT.

adz124 and Greg know what im talking about.



This message was modified by the poster at 03 10, 2017 01:52 AM

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shawn_m7 Mar 10, 2017 05:02 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Is watercooling worth it?

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=3_yQsUN0TiI

Im a fan of watercooling btw just sharing info.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 10, 2017 03:49 PM

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Jack_L2 Mar 10, 2017 06:08 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Noctua fans are extremely quiet and powerful, whether for watercooling or air-cooling. I used them for my triple-radiators, they are amazing.

Yes the pump makes a whining noise, but not all pumps are equal, and some have variable voltage, so can decrease or increase the voltage (gaming vs. daily tasks).

They are great for OCing both the CPU and GPU, so you will never hear your video card scream in the middle of the game :P

I am interested in a 1080 or 1080ti with a waterblock.

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Moe Stedley Mar 10, 2017 10:11 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Where are the cards?!?

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DKS Mar 10, 2017 10:23 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Where are the cards? $999.

http://www.ncix.com/category/video-cards-geforce-gtx-1080-9f-108-2393.htm?gclid=CO3CwsnGzNICFUW1wAodIHgGMw

This message was modified by the poster at 03 10, 2017 10:24 AM

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rjb64 Mar 10, 2017 01:13 PM Reply | Bookmark
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^^^^ My PC isnt totally silent at all (obviously you have no experience with WC or you would have avoided blurting out this comment .....Even with 16 fas running at very low RPM there is NOWHERE near the racket of those Fans on the GPU'd ramping up.....not even close.

All of my previous Air Cooled GPU's sounded like Jet Engines....and the Temps...hahahahah
Idle 17c / Load 32c ........nuff said ....once you go wet...you'll never go back :)
btw the pump ???? Are you kidding me...have you ever heard one ? I dont think you have with another comment like that Anyone with any WC experience knows unless you have a Flow Meter visible, in many almost all cases you cant hear the pump running at all over even the most silent Case Fans.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 10, 2017 01:16 PM

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rjb64 Mar 10, 2017 01:21 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I dont think ADZ has any experience with a Liquid Cooled System at all....yes my Pump is the Vario design with RPM Control.....but even Leak Testing without the PC actually running sometimes I literally have to grasp the tubes or Reservoir just to see if the pump is running ;)

My 780's used to sould like a couple of jet engines "wwwwoooossshhhing" away in my case when gaming...pumping heat out the back at 78c...crazy.....very limited OC'ing as well....on a good note the Titan XP FC EK Blocks are compatible with the 1080Ti's ;)

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adz124 Mar 10, 2017 01:31 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (rjb64 j Mar 10 2017, 01:21 PM)

I dont think ADZ has any experience with a Liquid Cooled


1. Never make blind assumptions like this if you want to be taken seriously.

I have almost two decades of experience when it comes to water cooling (as well as some LN2). I was merely stating that water cooling is expensive for very little gains in the real world. If you're doing synthetic benchmarking; aka e-peen benching, then sure. I suppose it holds some validity in that regard. Just don't come to me, or any others and say a custom loop is "cost effective". Because it isn't...

This message was modified by the poster at 03 10, 2017 01:32 PM

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shawn_m7 Mar 10, 2017 03:57 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Facts

go fact check this

water cooling looks cool

water cooling does lower temps but gives next to no performance gains on current hardware. My FE are OC s 2075 mhz.


Blowers USED to be jet engines, since the 980 ( ok ) then 1080 ( pretty damn quite ) its no longer a big deal.

with enough large radiators you can use lower rpms on the fans which CAN be silent.

Pumps are not as loud as they once were, but yes some have more whine than others.

It is never cost effective but those that build water cooled loops are not trying to be cost effective.

I don't use water cooling as I have a silverstone FT02 with 3 180 mm fans that I leave on the lowest setting and still pump a ton of air. The case is also 6 feet away and sound proofed.

water cooled, air cooled, who cares do what you want, if it performs and you are happy great.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 11, 2017 09:13 AM

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Yoinkerman Mar 10, 2017 07:12 PM Reply | Bookmark
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i'm really not impressed with the lack of context around game settings in reviews.

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rjb64 Mar 10, 2017 07:44 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Hey ADZ ....cool your jets and take a big ole "chill pill" Mr LN2....re-read my post...Did I ever say it was "cost effective"...nope! I just pointed out that if you think its still noisy (vs an air cooled F14 90mm Fan ....2 if SLi...) and the pump is noisy then you my friend obviously havent been around a nice quiet WC Rig......as someone else pointed out...the Noctua Fans and Corsair High Static SP Fans (yes even 16 of them) running off of 4 Ch 50W / Ch Fan Controller with the speed turned right down to 900 RPM is "extremely quiet"........you would know this of course though....   :)

Personally I went liquid for a few reasons....none at all for epeen (but I do enjoy OC'ing and pushing my HW....personally I got sick of monkeying with custom fan profiles on my SLi and Tri Sli rigs only to see temps around 78c under load.....most of all its just ole fun

This message was modified by the poster at 03 10, 2017 07:50 PM

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adz124 Mar 10, 2017 07:58 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Lol... This guy. I never said otherwise, mate.... I was speaking in general.

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NotAFanBoy Mar 10, 2017 08:55 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Jack_L2 w Mar 10 2017, 06:08 AM)

so you will never hear your video card scream in the middle of the game :P


I don't hear anything with headphones on anyway. I think watercooling is overrated as hell personally. Noctua makes great products and it's all you really need. An NH D15 and an aftermarket triple fan GPU with a respectable fan curve is barely audible.

And let's face it. Most gamers use headsets anyway. Watercooing isn't as important nowadays now that the nm process is shrinking and gpu boost basically already maxes out possible oc headroom. Watercooling looks cool, and that's about it. Gratz on wasting your money on something to show off to your "friends".

This message was modified by the poster at 03 10, 2017 08:56 PM

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rjb64 Mar 10, 2017 09:29 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Although Water Cooling keeps Temps way down....its also about the "hobby enthusiast part of it my friend"....we do it...cause we can

Not sure if this pic will work...its an old pic...Deus Ex Human Revolution...everything maxed at 1440p...under full load!......Hey do car enthusiasts "need" to do what they do.....or any other hobbiest...of course not....I can tell you one thing...its "Highly addictive"

If this pic works its with a bit of a voltage push....Cores +155 Mhz and Memory +300 Mhz 780Ti's SLi....so yeah pretty old system...

[URL=http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/sextant2/DSC03271_zps40c93df9.jpg[/IMG][/URL]" target="_blank">http://s30.photobucket.com/user/sextant2/media/DSC03271_zps40c93df9.jpg.html][IMG]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/sextant2/DSC03271_zps40c93df9.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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Coach_ Mar 10, 2017 09:49 PM Reply | Bookmark
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sorry that was not a like................................................................. ....... .. .. .. .........






































...

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shawn_m7 Mar 11, 2017 12:08 AM Reply | Bookmark
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I can upgrade my cards yearly because of what I dont spend on water cooling.

2 min swap.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 11, 2017 12:09 AM

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jakeElwood Mar 11, 2017 02:07 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Ive never understood why people want the inside of their case to look neat, but as i said up top, if its a hobby, who cares.

But I would be angry if these people are buying crap monitors which doesnt force manufacturers to make good monitors so that i can buy one.

Because unlike the inside of our cases, it does matter what our monitors look like.

So many people over the years talking about how cool their special ram is and having tri-sli on a TN panel. Makes me very angry to remember those days......



This message was modified by the poster at 03 11, 2017 02:08 AM

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Mr. Friendly™ Mar 11, 2017 06:49 PM Reply | Bookmark
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indeed rj, but considering the amount of money that can be involved for very little performance gain (ie. SLi vs Tri-SLi), I can't help but think of the saying, 'a fool and his money are soon parted'.

I get it though, and don't begrudge you the fun just because I couldn't ever afford such a setup.

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rjb64 Mar 11, 2017 07:15 PM Reply | Bookmark
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^^^ Yeah the Tri SLi goodness was me just having some fun running benchmarks......Tri SLi was GTX 280's....then Tri SLi GTX 580 vanillas..back to SLi 580 Ultras.....then went to 680 Classy SLi and finally 780Ti SLi...(Fermi 480 SLi was in the mix as well)......I wound up skipping the 980's all together as the 780Ti's (SLi) on my RIVE with 3930k running at 4.8 Ghz was more than enough for 1440p gaming....unfortunately the 3G VRAM is beginning to be a choke point....found that especially true running ROTTR....eats up both VRAM and RAM ...!!!

I'm in a bit of a pickle now as I really want SLi again..for a few reasons...first I just love HW  ...second a single card woth a Waterblock is heavy and can flex...with 2 Cards the SLi Terminal Block provides a ton of support....so yeah...reasoning tells me drop  $1K on a 1080Ti which is fine for 1440p....but the "non sensible" side says 1080 SLi ....OR 1080 Ti SLi ..BUT that would mean upgrading to 4K .......$$$$...OR ditch my old RIVE X79 gear and go with a new build....one thing with WC....the CPU Block....Fittings....SLi Terminal Block...Radiators..Fans..pump....reservoir.....are all recyclable.....

We'll see what I wind up doing here .....on the fence  BUT the 1080 Ti's are damn fine looking Cards and anyone that purchases 1 or 2 of em will defintely be able to skip the next series for sure   :fup:

This message was modified by the poster at 03 11, 2017 07:17 PM

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coachmcguirk Mar 12, 2017 12:42 AM Reply | Bookmark
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What's the eta looking like for the sc2 1080ti's?

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Hotshot Mar 12, 2017 10:54 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Delete Image. Please use this feature thoughtfully.  Report this image 

Quote: (jakeElwood @ Mar 09 2017, 01:49 PM)

I would argue that really high resolution crap is still crap.


I read that and I did not even have to look at who wrote it to know it was you. I said it before and I will say it again: Bumping the resolution has only ever helped me get better graphics... Yes in a perfect world we would have photo-realistic graphics, but we don't live in that world.

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Coach_ Mar 12, 2017 11:48 AM Reply | Bookmark
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please compare 1440P to 4k

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Hotshot Mar 12, 2017 12:27 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Coach_ c Mar 12 2017, 11:48 AM)

please compare 1440P to 4k


Screen above is a 4x (2560x2112) taken on a 1440p (1952x1440 fullscreen) monitor and a 6x (3840x3168) taken on a 4k monitor (2928x2160).

Obvious improvements. I love using this as an example, as in theory this is the worse case scenario for resolution scaling (as its an console game designed to be run at 640x528, so its possible it was coded to use lower resolution textures when link is at that distance to save on FPS).

edit: Also that 4k screen was taking before (don't have my 4k tv connected to this PC at the moment), so it looks the colors are different for some reason.

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Hotshot Mar 12, 2017 12:34 PM Reply | Bookmark
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This image was deleted by Hotshot @03/12/2017

I have a4x vs a 6x (50% more internal pixels) ... both taken on a 4k tv. There is a difference, but its minor (hence why I suspect the aforementioned texture limit on this console game).

edit: I deleted it tho, ncix is doing some sort of image processing so some quality is lost thereby making them look very similar.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 12, 2017 12:36 PM

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Mr. Friendly™ Mar 12, 2017 01:15 PM Reply | Bookmark
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hahaha. the 1440, you can see the horses muscles...but at 4K, it looks air brushed. HAHAHA!!!

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Hotshot Mar 12, 2017 01:59 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Mr. Friendly™ c Mar 12 2017, 01:15 PM)

hahaha. the 1440, you can see the horses muscles...but at 4K, it looks air brushed. HAHAHA!!!


No, the 4k is better all around. NCIX is just trolling us with their image upload.

Here is a proper screenshot that show obvious gains on the rug and links shield: http://i.imgur.com/AZrnqFR.png

edit: And once again, I need to stress that this is link in the background (opening intro of twilight) and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the texture resolution is maxed out at 4x native in this game designed to be run at sub 720p (because from 1x all the way to 4x there is obvious gains, but after 4x you hit diminishing returns in this particular game/setup).

This message was modified by the poster at 03 12, 2017 02:07 PM

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Mr. Friendly™ Mar 12, 2017 02:17 PM Reply | Bookmark
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err...then use images from other games?

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Hotshot Mar 12, 2017 02:23 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I like using that game because I only change the internal resolution of the emulator as opposed to having to change the resolution of my computer. Either way, I think its stupid thing to talk about. Obviously 4k is better, jake has a vendetta against it because he wants better PQ so he takes his anger out on higher resolutions.

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jakeElwood Mar 13, 2017 04:12 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Hey Hotshot,

Quote: (Hotshot r Mar 12 2017, 02:23 PM)

Obviously 4k is better, jake has a vendetta against it because he wants better PQ so he takes his anger out on higher resolutions.


This is true of course, and i am glad you see what i am saying and not just a straight diss.

Higher resolutions on inferior panels and at the cost of PQ seems obviously dumb, but, its exactly what the manufacturers have been doing to us for 15yrs and we eat it all up.

Question about your horse:

Where is the fine detail information coming from? I am a photographer and have been up-scaling for 15years for large prints. You do not magically find fine detail by just up-scaling. All that detail in the backpack especially has to be there already. Are you sure this information was not already there and down scaled?

I mean the 640x528 vs 5120x4224. The difference is negligible between 1440p and 4k.(i would choose better lighting and textures at that point ;-). And i suspect the original data is there-about.



This message was modified by the poster at 03 13, 2017 04:18 AM

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Mr. Friendly™ Mar 13, 2017 06:31 AM Reply | Bookmark
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forgive my ignorance, but what is PQ?

and Elwood, Shot isn't saying use an inferior panel with higher resolution...he was just agreeing with me that as resolution goes up, all the other features don't need to be set as high.

I suspect as the pixel density drops, you may wish to start cranking up AA, AF, etc...but when it's on a smaller screen, it's not quite as important.

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Hotshot Mar 13, 2017 06:42 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Delete Image. Please use this feature thoughtfully.  Report this image 

Note: Here is the same image I uploaded on ncix, this one probably looks better: https://i.imgur.com/ZolZsiO.jpg
That is a 1x 2x, 4x and 6x. Even tho this is a 10 year old game designed to be run at 640x528, this game scales very well all the way up to 4x. While at 6x there are improvements in the higher resolution textures (like the helmet).

Quote: (jakeElwood @ Mar 13 2017, 04:12 AM)


Where is the fine detail information coming from? I am a photographer and have been up-scaling for 15years for large prints. You do not magically find fine detail by just up-scaling. All that detail in the backpack especially has to be there already. Are you sure this information was not already there and down scaled


The horse (epona) has textures. Higher resolution textures allow you to use higher resolutions. If you design that horse to look good at 640x528 when its taking up 50% of the screen height (about 250 pixels), then that horse will look just as good or better on a monitor with 4x the resolution when its at twice its normal distance (taking up about 125 pixels). This is the point you almost always seem to ignore. There is only so much 'detail' in the horse, but higher resolution monitor allows you to see that detail when the object is farther away. Some games (like obviously zelda in this case) will look much better for free just by increasing the resolution (1x to 4x) even tho that was obviously never intended.

Note: If I ever end up playing this game again and leaving that area I will take a screenshot of Link and his horse Epona. I suspect the horse is maxed out on texture detail at 6x but there is more to be gained on items like the shield.

Quote: (jakeElwood @ Mar 13 2017, 04:12 AM)


I mean the 640x528 vs 5120x4224. The difference is negligible between 1440p and 4k.(i would choose better lighting and textures at that point ;-). And i suspect the original data is there-abou


I do *not* have a 5120x4224 monitor. So even if I put that on a 4k monitor there is interpolation going on (in fact interpolation gets worse and worse the higher resolution I go, thereby making the PQ gains even more impressive). On top of that the first screen I took was on my 1440k monitor and I was not even in full screen. I just used it as an ultra quick fast example of drastic improvements by making a simple resolution change.

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Hotshot Mar 13, 2017 06:45 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Mr. Friendly™ r Mar 13 2017, 06:31 AM)

what is PQ?
Picture quality.

Quote: (Hotshot @ Mar 13 2017, 06:45 AM)

he was just agreeing with me that as resolution goes up, all the other features don't need to be set as high.


The first time I noticed this was in Riddick. I spent a good 30 minutes playing with lots of settings trying to get a good FPS. The moment I started increasing the resolution it blew my mind at how well the game ran and how good it looked. I went from a blurry low FPS game to a sharp higher FPS game just by lowering some of the settings and increasing the resolution (CRT days).

Both bumping the screen resolution and bumping the game settings will tend to have a diminishing return point. In the golden days of CRT monitors you could find this 'optimal' point in many games if you spent time testing.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 13, 2017 06:51 AM

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Mr. Friendly™ Mar 13, 2017 07:04 AM Reply | Bookmark
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hey Hotshot...the above shot, same game as the horse?

can you use a different game as an example?

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NaX Mar 13, 2017 07:26 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (jakeElwood @ Mar 11 2017, 02:07 AM)

Ive never understood why people want the inside of their case to look neat, but as i said up top, if its a hobby, who cares.

try working with both cases in the picture; the case on the left is a nightmare to work with whereas the case on the right is easy to work with
yes it can be a hobby for some, but some degree of organization is, imo, a necessity

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Mr. Friendly™ Mar 13, 2017 07:41 AM Reply | Bookmark
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I agree with your assessment, NaX, however the messy case was never designed with cable management in mind while the tidy case likely was.

further to that, the tidy case is probably using a modular PSU, which cures half the problem of keeping a case tidy.

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Hotshot Mar 13, 2017 07:46 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Mr. Friendly™ @ Mar 13 2017, 07:04 AM)

hey Hotshot...the above shot, same game as the horse?

can you use a different game as an example?

Yes it was the same game (Zelda twilight princess). I am currently in a zone that I am the wolf. Only other game I have is f-zero gx. 1x vs 6x.

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Jack_L2 Mar 13, 2017 08:40 AM Reply | Bookmark
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There is no doubt that higher resolution seem to produce nicer looking pictures, but my question is which is more important: PQ or monitor quality?

I think the answer is both, and I also think that while higher resolutions might make the picture look better, the monitor`s color reproductions are as important. I will see completely different things as I view those pictures with a very-high quality (without super-high res) monitor vs some $200 monitor. To me higher resolutions is not addressing the root cause of the issue, but more like a band-aid to the real issue which is to have good quality color reproduction on a monitor.

Higher resolutions are extremely heavy on video cards, so we end up paying a lot more on video cards every a couple of years vs having a lower resolution monitors with higher image quality.

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Hotshot Mar 13, 2017 09:22 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Horse closer to camera in the screenshot above, thereby using a high texture.

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Mr. Friendly™ Mar 13, 2017 09:28 AM Reply | Bookmark
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hey Hotshot...can you throw in pictures with AA and AF on max for both resolutions?

and Jack you can't have PQ without a quality monitor...so yes, they go hand in hand.

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Hotshot Mar 13, 2017 09:38 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Jack_L2 @ Mar 13 2017, 08:40 AM)

Higher resolutions are extremely heavy on video cards, so we end up paying a lot more on video cards every a couple of years vs having a lower resolution monitors with higher image quality.


That is not true. Higher resolutions often can mean *BETTER* FPS then a lower resolution with insane quality settings and AA settings. Like I said, with both image quality and resolution you hit a point of diminishing return on each. The trick is to find the sweet spot (at least this was the trick in the CRT days, now with LCD you are stuck with only one resolution and can only play around with the settings).

In fact SSAA accomplishes AA by rending the scene at X amount of pixels. So 2SSAA is 2x the amount of pixels per dimensions 1920x1080 = 3840x2160 (basically rending at 4k), or with 4SSAA you would be 7680x4320 (basically 8k). It's the reason why SSAA produces the best quality possible, but also is by far the slowest and is not nearly as good of a choice compared to other options (like MSAA).

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Hotshot Mar 13, 2017 09:42 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Mr. Friendly™ @ Mar 13 2017, 09:28 AM)

hey Hotshot...can you throw in pictures with AA and AF on max for both resolutions?


Attached is 1x native vs 4x native on my 1440p full screen with 8x SSAA.

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Jack_L2 Mar 13, 2017 11:15 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Hotshot : But when you say in-game insane quality settings.. If you have an excellent PQ monitor, why would you even would have to mess with game quality settings? I will assume you simply wont need to. Am no monitor expert, but logic will prevail that higher PQ is better than higher resolutions and other in-game settings.

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Hotshot Mar 13, 2017 12:08 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Jack_L2 z Mar 13 2017, 11:15 AM)

Hotshot : But when you say in-game insane quality settings.. If you have an excellent PQ monitor, why would you even would have to mess with game quality settings? I will assume you simply wont need to. Am no monitor expert, but logic will prevail that higher PQ is better than higher resolutions and other in-game settings.


An 'excellent PQ monitor' won't help you. If the graphics don't look good a $200 or a $2000 will both look bad. In fact a $200 TN monitor with a 720p picture of a nascar race will look more realistic than a $2000 IPS monitor hooked up to any racing game.

As for the GPU question: Each 'increase' in settings will add more work for the GPU.

So for example you might have 4 shadow modes:
Light shadows (-2 fps)
Medium Shadows (-5 fps)
High shadows (-10 fps)
Ultra shadows (-25 fps)

In this mock scenerio with shadows, it might be very hard to tell the difference between high and ultra shadows. A lot of the time with graphics settings you get to a point were going one setting higher does look better but it's very hard to tell the difference at the cost of lots of FPS. I used shadows in this example, but you can replace shadows with many things: Water reflection, view distance, particle count, special effects, etc. So a game in general will probably look better on 1080p than at 720 with higher settings (if you aim set both up with 100% same gear and aim to have stable 60 fps).

This really depends on the game tho and the settings. For example in the Zelda game above I tried a ~60 second test with a native 1x with 8 SSAA and 2x native with 2 MSAA, the result: The 2x looked much better and appeared to have better FPS (the 1x seemed to dip under 60 fps in my ultra quick unofficial test). So in this 'extreme' example I was able to get *better* PQ by increasing the resolution and got the same or better FPS.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 13, 2017 12:09 PM

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Jack_L2 Mar 13, 2017 12:27 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I think we are going around the same point. Who is assuming that graphics wont look good? I mean sure this is a factor, but the discussion here is that, assuming graphics are excellent to start with, what is better: having a better PQ monitor, or having higher resolutions with even more in-game graphics tweakings?

In your " look better on 1080p than at 720 with higher settings" example, would not that mean that the graphics were originally poor in quality?

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Hotshot Mar 13, 2017 12:58 PM Reply | Bookmark
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In a perfect world the graphics would look awesome and we would get better PQ at 720p then we get a 4k today. Sadly we don't live in that world. In the world we live in its often 'cheaper' to go higher resolution then bump up the graphics settings to the 'extreme' level which is in diminishing returns territory.

And yes, the graphics from a 2006 console game is poor. The fact such an old game can get such a huge bump with a minor change is why I like using it as an example.

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jakeElwood Mar 13, 2017 02:40 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Hey Nax,

Haha you took my word Neat literally.

Neat means Cool or fancy.

Yes our cases should be somewhat tidy, but that wasnt what i was saying.


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jakeElwood Mar 13, 2017 03:07 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Hey Jack

Hotshot and I are saying the same thing in different ways. His Nascar reference is exactly the same as my Formula one reference.

What Hotshot is showing us works the other way as well which is my point.

When you have to turn PQ settings down or off because your resolution is too high(4k) for your gcard, you are then going backwards.

When you take a game that doesnt have a lot of PQ settings, then, higher resolution will be better than low resolution. This is what Hotshot is showing us.

Most games we have, you can crank up all kinds of settings with no real PQ improvements but it ruins your FPS, this is what Hotshot is saying. (correct me if im using your name in vain Hotshot)

We could show examples of where lowering the resolution with higher PQ settings would look a lot better than 4k with those PQ settings turned off. Which was what i was saying.

We are both right, just doing our best to confuse you Jack  




This message was modified by the poster at 03 13, 2017 03:12 PM

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Jack_L2 Mar 13, 2017 07:54 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Neither of you know how to explain things, and I still don't get what both of you are trying to say

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Kevin_M51 Mar 28, 2017 09:05 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Now that the pre-orders are up for the 1080 TI cards, does anyone at NCIX know if the For Honor/Ghost Recon Wildlands game bundle is going to apply to those cards?

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ayyylmao Apr 11, 2017 07:14 PM Reply | Bookmark
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but overall shouldn't it be better than the 1080 though

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Greg * NCIX.com Apr 13, 2017 10:13 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Kevin_M51 @ Mar 28 2017, 09:05 PM)

does anyone at NCIX know if the For Honor/Ghost Recon Wildlands game bundle is going to apply to those cards?

Yes, the 1080 Ti cards qualify.

If you don't see the game attached to your original order, please send a message to the Customer Care team to confirm if it has been added to your invoice.

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Kevin_M51 Apr 14, 2017 04:32 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I did send a message to customer care. This was the ticket (2784334) I mentioned in the other thread that still hasn't been taken care of after a week and half.

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bill_k2 Apr 21, 2017 12:57 AM Reply | Bookmark
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do we still get the bundle even if u take 10 months to get the card in????

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